The Cranky Middle Manager #79 Getting There with Marshall Goldsmith
The Cranky Middle Manager Show #079 (MP3 10.9MB 31:34Min)
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I am very proud of this show, but particularly proud of this episode. Why?
First, I think it’s a great example of what we do best here (check out the Cranky Middle Manager Show Manifesto).
Secondly, Marshall Goldsmith is this week’s guest. If I were to put up a list of the top 5 people I’d love to get on the show, and didn’t think I stood a chance, Marshall’s on it. I’m not going to tell you the rest of them, although you know the elusive Tom Peters is on it, of course, but that’s not a secret. His new book “What Got You Here Won’t Get You There” is already a best seller. You heard about it on our interview with 800 CEO Read president Jack Covert.
Please, if you are new to the show, check out our archives and listen in on some of the amazing conversations we’ve had. If you’re an old hand, stay tuned and let us know who you want to hear from by dropping me an email. Apparently nothing is impossible……
Show Notes
0:00 Welcome to Episode 79. Being a manager is more than an aspiration- it takes perspiration- and lots of it. We’ll talk about all the hard work with Marshall Goldsmith in a bit.
This episode is dedicated to Ptah Hotep, the Marshall Goldsmith of his day. Read the precepts and realize that good leadership is timeless.
4:00 Our quote of the week is also from my new bosom buddy Ptah Hotep. We can learn from everyone…so don’t get cocky.
5:00 Welcome Marshall Goldsmith. American Management Association and Business Week both call him one of the great all-time Management Thinkers. While I”m trying to de-emphasize the leadership discipline, or at least give more time to the others, I won’t look a gift horse in the mouth. So what does he think the role of middle management really is??? It’s to translate the big vision into execution, and middle management is the key link between the twain.
6:52 We talk about his new book, “What Got You Here Won’t Get You There”. What the heck does that mean? Well, you got here despite whatever your weaknesses are, not because of them. How does that compare to something like “Now, Discover Your Strengths” that says, basically, “play to your strengths”. You’ll be shocked to discover Marshall has some thoughts on the matter.
I talk about my own challenges, which has roots in marine biology. I’m looking for a good remora.
12:45 What motivates CEOs and multi-millionaires to seek out personal coaching from someone like Marshall? When someone like Michael Dell stands up and says “I got some feedback and I’m working on stuff?” They’re trying to be a role model. Of course there are also those trying to get to the CEO spot and aren’t quite cutting it.
14:44 The higher you go, the more your problems are behavioral, not knowledge gaps. It’s not a lack of knowledge, it’s how you behave and what you do that matter most. Peter Drucker said, “Most leaders know what to do, they don’t know what to stop”. What does that mean?
17:00 One thing leaders need to do is stop trying to win all the time. Sure, competitiveness got you where you are, but always having to win, to be smarter than everyone else gets annoying and stifles creativity. In fact, people will let us win even when we’re wrong because we have power.
19:20 Oh, and stop trying to add value. i talked about this one in my last article in Management Issues. Managers are incredibly powerful, and you don’t want to kill people’s motivation.
20:59 This is my favorite part of the conversation… we all have superstitions about our own success. Woody Allen is one example, CEOs are others…you have to hear this conversation. It’s just bad logic… I behave this way, I’m successful, therefore I’m successful BECAUSE I behave this way. Don’t confuse “because” and “in spite”.
26:17 Marshall takes us through a specific example… let’s say you’re stubborn and opinionated….how do you make BEHAVIORAL changes? It’s all about feedback- or feed forward rather. Feed forward is not about the past.
the steps to changing your behavior are:
- Get Feedback (or Feed Forward)
- Apologize for past behavior
- Advertise the fact you’re trying to improve
- Listen to others
- Thank them for the feedback
Marshall’s Resources
Anything by:
Thich Nat Hanh, Buddhist Monk and writer
Jim Kouzes (UPDATE: he’ll be with us on episode 82!!!!)
Check out his library of materials. Lots of great stuff I can personally recommend.
For myself, check out our sponsor’s 25% discount at www.mindtools.com/cranky
Take a look at my e-book, “Meet Like You Mean It- The Cranky Middle Manager’s Guide to Productive and Painless Meetings” while you’re at it.
Don’t let the weasels get you down.
January 16th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
[...] Cranky Middle Manager Host Wayne Turmel just put up this podcast with Marshall Goldsmith - executive coach to the (business) stars. It’s a great one, so check it out. [...]
January 17th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Hey wayne, I posted this a few times at Management Issues and the comment tab is ‘busted.” So, while I enjoyed this interview - the comment is for your drunken power post! The management issues won’t take it:-), Ok? So here goes my 2-bits:-)
“Great post and thanks Wayne! And it’s true - that’s why Kissinger called power - “the ultimate aphrodisiac.” The exciting part of all this, in my view, is the new research out to show us all — “the power to alter moods.” Guess it works both ways as do most new revelations:-) Thanks Wayne - great stuff!
January 24th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
What a great episode, Wayne! Thanks. I’m particularly liking the concept of “feedforward”, asking for help making changes. And thanks for the pointer to the library. My reading list just grew exponentially.
January 26th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Great show, Wayne!! I was excited to see that you landed someone like Mr. Goldsmith. Speak volumes about the job that you do, I think. Congratulations! Now if only Tom Peters would realize what Marshall Goldsmith obviously knows - The Cranky Middle Manager Podcast is a great way to reach people who are hopelessly addicted to management and leadership information in whatever forms we can get it!!! Thanks!
January 27th, 2007 at 6:43 am
Dear Wayne,
Thank you for your support of my newest book, What Got You Here Won’t Get You There. I am excited to report that the book was recently ranked the #1 best selling business book in the United States in both The Wall Street Journal and USA Today best seller lists.
If I can be of assistance to any of your readers, please have them visit my website, http://www.MarshallGoldsmithLibrary.com, use whatever they wish and feel free to contact me. Thank you for your support.
Life is good.
Marshall Goldsmith
http://www.MarshallGoldsmithLibrary.com
January 27th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Wayne,
Loved the interview with Marshall Goldsmith. He came highly recommended from a good friend of mine who happens to be in the executive coaching field. Without a doubt this kind of information exchange not only adds to the value you bring to this mode of communication but also brings to life the potential for improvement we all have regardless of our current or future paths. Excellent work Wayne !!
February 8th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
[...] Marshall Goldsmith’s “What Got You Here Won’t Get You There” (and you can hear him talk about here if you haven’t already). [...]
June 24th, 2007 at 12:49 am
[...] 4:05 Welcome Marshall Goldsmith who owes us a huge debt of gratitude, and he knows it. (Listen to his first interview with us here)The question that I get most often is: influencing upwards. Why is that the thing that makes intelligent, discerning folks like listeners of this show so crazy? Marshall starts by quoting Peter Drucker… we focus downwards, not upwards. Oh yeah, and too much data is a career killer. [...]
April 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
[...] Marshall Goldsmith has been with us twice this year, Episode 79 and Episode 100 . We are honored that he’s such a big supporter of the show and Good on Ya, Marshall…. now if we can only get the guy at Number 7 (and you know who you are) to return our calls…. of course since he was number 4 last year, maybe he’s no longer such a big deal….on the way down at all… when he gets to number 39 he’ll come crawling to us….. [...]
April 29th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
[...] 4:22 Welcome Bob Burg to the show. His book is the fastest rising book since Marshall Goldsmith’s What Got You Here Won’t Get You There (hear our chat with Marshall). The book is all about adding value to people’s lives. It’s a quick read but it’s a good one. Here’s the big question. What does networking have to do with the corporate world when you’re not job seeking or going out on your own? [...]
April 29th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
[...] What Got You Here Won’t Get You There Marshall Goldsmith (you can hear him on two episodes of this show…. show one show two) Take a field trip to somewhere people do great work and just watch them. Wegmans, Cirque de Soleil or Marriott hotels are examples. [...]
April 30th, 2008 at 9:02 am
[...] I originally heard Marshall Goldsmith on the Cranky Middle Manager podcast in January and liked what he had to say. The book does not disappoint. It’s one of the rare business books that doesn’t pound you over the head repeating what it could have made clear in 5 pages. “What Got You Here Won’t Get You There,” is a cogently written and thoughtful set of exercises and self-examinations that will help you get where you need to go. [...]