The Cranky Middle Manager Show #151 The State of Training 2008 with Josh Bersin
Today Wayne Turmel speaks to Josh Bersin about the new best practices in training and what some companies know that others don’t. Plus we salute an Arab translator and why HR and OD are the worst possible names for their departments.
Show Notes
0:00 Welcome to the show. One of the reasons training doesn’t work as well as it should is who is in charge. Human Resources and Organizational Development are horrible names. Why are Humans to be used and Organizations developed? Human Capital is not a better term either. We dedicate the show to Hunayn Ibn Ishaq. Context has everything to do with successful training, gang.
3:15 The quote of the week is from Edward Bulwer Lytton, known as one of the worst writers ever, but even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while…..
4:32 Welcome Josh Bersin from Bersin and Associates. He has just put out a High Impact Learning Organization Study of best practices from the corporate world. What are the high performing companies focusing on? It’s not just skills it’s how they operate. It’s about learning as much as training….. there’s a difference
8:54 The difference between training and learning- performance-driven learning (how to do your job- good training) and talent-driven learning programs which is where the biggest impact is if the culture is there. A learning culture is critical and Josh gives us some examples
13:25 What part does the budgeting process play in this… if it’s up to line managers, training won’t happen voluntarily as a rule
20:30 How does a manager work with her team to help them learn and grow? It’s a coaching job, not a management job per se.
23:30 How would Josh organize training and development in a perfect world? It’s a strongly centralized, federated model. Dangerous ground comparing a good organization to the US government, but there’s a point to be made here.
Josh’s Resources
The Trusted Advisor by David Maister ( who has been on this show too… take a listen to show 41 and show 127) Training and HR has to learn how to serve their clients
Peter Drucker’s The Effective Executive
Social Networking is a crucial component of learning… www.techcrunch.com
Don’t let the weasels get you down….
July 17th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Wayne, thanks for another great show – I follow Josh’s research as well and it was great to hear you both in conversation.
A quick word on human capital – does it help if I emphasise that I don’t talk about HCM as managing people AS human capital – but managing people FOR human capital ie an important intangible capability that can make a significant, long-term difference to organisational success?
The difference is that for at least some of the time and on some occasions – people should come first ie the business strategy takes account of the people management strategy rather than the other way around (this is the way that human capital is created).
Happy to come on the show to explain more!
Best regards, Jon.
July 17th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Jon, you’re on my short list, big guy. Love your blog and agree with most of what you have to say, just don’t care much for the term. What can I say, I’m a hopeless semantic. We’ll hash it out soon. On the other hand, isn’t it good to know we care enough to talk about it?
For those who wonder what the heck we’re talking about, Jon has a fine blog that’s frequently part of the Carnival of HR… Check out http://strategic-hcm.blogspot.com/
November 7th, 2008 at 2:45 am
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