The Cranky Middle Manager Show #251 The One Minute Negotiator- George Lucas
The Cranky Middle Manager Show #226 Managing with Clean Language- Tomkins and Lawley
Posted on 02. Feb, 2010 by Wayne in General, Podcast
Today Wayne Turmel talks to Penny Tomkins and James Lawley about using “Clean Language”. Do people understand what you’re talking about? Can you really understand them when they tell you something? The psychology of metaphors is today’s topic. Also we look at a Russian general and I get to show off that I’ve read War and Peace. Just another day in the salt mines here at the Cranky Middle Manager Show.
James Lawley and Penny Tomkins are all about using “clean language”. They were recommended by friend of the show Bob Selden (hear his Cranky interview here).
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Show Notes
0:00 Welcome to the show all you Middle Managers and Steeler’s Wheel fans. Today we are talking about the psychology of management communication and so we dedicate this episode to Prince Pyotr Ivanovitch Bagration, one of the heros of Tolstoy’s War and Peace. Are you inspiring your team in the midst of chaos?
3:53 It seems only right that we quote Leo Tolstoy today, who knew a thing or two about human psychology even though he was mad as a hatter himself. Is your truth like gold?
4:32 Welcome to the first of a couple of shows focusing on the psychology of communication. Yes, more brain geekiness but that’s part of our charm here. Welcome Penny and James, authors of Metaphors in Mind: Transformation Through Symbolic Modelling . There’s actual real world value here, don’t let the title fool you.
7:32 Why is Clean Language such an important concept for managers? If people don’t understand you and vice versa all kinds of havoc erupts. Clean Language is a way of asking questions to avoid misunderstanding and making assumptions.
9:45 What part do metaphors play in the way we speak to each other. Research shows we use about 6 a minute… which works great if we all work from the same metaphor playbook- there’s another metaphor. Metaphors can be overt or more subtle.
13:22 Language is the constraint we have to work with, so what’s the problem? We don’t all interpret metaphors the same way. Rather than make assumptions- challenge them and ask questions.
17:55 The Psychological background of this is the work of David Grove and was used as a therapeutic technique. What kind of language and metaphors do you use? Military? Sports? Political? It’s not easy to get used to changing your language as I stupidly demonstrate during this conversation. Also I dare you to find another business podcast that uses the word “etymology”.
21:40 As we work in languages other than English, what madness does metaphor cause? It’s important that we think about metaphors people use… we discuss skinned teeth and hairy ears. Trust me, it’s relevant.
23:47 Bob Selden will be leading a workshop on Clean Language February 16th. Click here for more details.
25:30 check out their website at www.cleanlanguage.co.uk. There is lots of great information there including questions to ask. Among the best questions is:
- “and is there anything else?”
- “and what kind of _____ are you talking about”
- “and then what happened?”
This is not just active listening or paraphrasing. The purpose is not to demonstrate understanding but to help people understand themselves. Oh, and Star Trek is a teaching point on this. How’s THAT for geeky?
Resources and books
Look up Cognitive Linguistics for more…
fascinating! I recently wrote “solidified her presence in the public eye” in a TV host’s bio and my boss could not comprehend beyond the literal — and so edited out the phrase.. after I recovered from my pissedoffedness, I was able to reframe her response as information about HER thinking and I suppose “management style” — there are indeed metaphors (and morons) everywhere !
btw, it was an episode of Star Trek: TNG and so was Captain Picard and Paul Winfield as the other captain who spoke in metaphors — agree that was brilliant!
Ahhhh, i knew someone in my audience would know. Thanks for posting, Sandy.